Wrestling

Question
QUESTION: "Hello,

   Thanks for answering my previous questions. I tried to ask another wrestling expert this question, but received no response. I was hoping that you could give us your best answer,as it is important to us as competetors.

   My girlfriend and I are sort of competetive. We have wrestled each other on several occasions. Most of the time , nobody ever really wins. However on 2 occasions there have been a winner.

   On occasion 1: We started off wrestling. My girfriend immediately gets behind me and tries to pull me down. I tried to get out of the grip, but failed. She did manage to get me down and get on top, but we were off the mat. So we decided that the fairest thing to do was to get back on the mat and resume our positions. She got back on top and was fairly quickly able to hold my arms down for a 3 second pin. She probably could have held me there for longer, but we declared her the winner that time.

   On occasion 2: We started off wrestling. My girlfriend did not try to get behind me this time, and I was able to get her down after a ltlle wrestling. I tried to pin her just by holding her shoulders down, but I did not get on top. She repeatedly was able to lift her shoulders out of the pin attempt. Finally, I was able to count to 3 and win this match, but not by getting on top. It felt as if she just stopped trying.

    So , on the 2 occasions that we did have results, we are tied with victories. We have since wrestled a few more times, and nobody seems to win. I can get her down, but she will not stay pinned. She has never tried to get behind me, like she did that first victory (and was able to take me down)... for some reason, she stopped trying that. So, she has not been able to get on top again. Just as a side note. At the time she weighed around 260 lbs. and I weighed probably around 210 lbs. I am 5' 7" and she is about 5' 6". So she does outweigh me. She does not workout and neither do I. Our question is:  Given this information.... who do you think is the better wrestler? and who do you think is stronger? We don't know if her weight was the reason why she was able to pin me or was it just good wrestling. When she pinned me, she was on top, but she used her arms , but it also felt as if she was using her weight as well to keep me down.She said that she did not use her weight,because she was leaning forward and her weight was not on my shoulders. When I pinned her, I was using just my arms, without getting on top,and it felt as if she just gave up. So, if you could help us decide who is the better wrestler and who is stronger, it would really help us out. We really want a good un-biased answer and we both will accept any decision you make.Oh, and did we do the right thing by resuming the first match in the positions that we were in when we went off the mat. In other words...was it a legitimate victory by her? Thank you for your time.... Joe"

ANSWER: Very sorry for the late reply, been under the weather.

As for this question, it is a little tougher. To know who is truly the better wrestler, you'd have to be able to witness it in in person. Even with good detail, wrestling is more of a science and how a move is done can make it better than most.

As for weight distribution, if you do not use your weight in a match you're a moron. Weight is the best thing to use if you have the advantage there.

As for a pin, in the amateur sport of it all....you don't have to have the shoulders down like you would in, say, a WWE match. While they need to be down of course, a pin can result in someone having a dominate position.

You can also distribute points for a takedown or for a push outside of the mat, which is how you win in Sumo Wrestling.

So I'd do this to help with a winner and loser. Have a time limit, and that way you can win or lose based on a points system. Not every match needs to have a pin to conclude. Although it is the most points and the best option if you can get it.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Joe,

     Thanks for answering my question about me and my girlfriend wrestling. I really wish that you could have determined who is probably the better wrestler, but I understand if you couldn't tell. Even though we are amateurs, we are not familiar with points for take downs and such, so we just try to pin each other with a 3 count. It is pretty hard to get someone's shoulders down for a 3 count, but we both managed to do it. I guess the better question to ask would have been: Given the matches that I described( both with and without results), who do you think is more dominant? Also, when she pinned me in that match, she had taken me down and got on top, but we rolled off of the mat. So, we got back on the mat and resumed the position of her being on top, without starting from scratch. She then was able to pin me. Did we do the right thing by resuming our positions, and was that a legitimate pin by her, even though we just resumed our positions that we were in before we slid off the mat?

   Thanks for your help.....

Answer
The point system is pretty simple. You get points for a pin but also for every takedown. Since you're not doing this in competition, make each for as many points as you want. If you go with the points for being outside the circle or mat, that can also be for points. But then a whole lot of shoving would be done, so it's not the best one to use unless you're doing Sumo.

As far as her pin, if you resumed on the mat after laying flat....she got a legal pin. However, since you did enter the outside before this, you would get on all fours(hands and knees) when you resumed and she would get the dominant position if you went outside due to her. Opposite if you got her to the outside. From there you can do whatever you need.

So the pin was legal, but in competition she would have never gotten that position back to pin you. So it wouldn't have counted. But if you laid down for it, you basically gave her the win. So you were in the wrong for the lay. She pinned okay.

As far as who is most dominant, again it is tough to go with a winner here because of not seeing in person. I assume you are wanting to know eagerly to make sure you were the best, or at least know. However, unless you had video...I cannot tell you who is better because it is all about proper rules and who looks better with what they do. I have none of this present to go off of, so I can only give you an opinion based on not seeing anything in person.

By the way you described it, she came off a bit better due to what she was able to do.