Legitimate wrestlers vs Pro- wrestlers

Question
QUESTION: Hello Michael, Joe, Turn Buckle guy %26 Dave,

this is general question and i am asking to both of you. Why legitimate or real wrestlers are not being given importance in WWE and TNA, even then where they have more wrestling moves and holds than ordinary pro-wrestler? Since 80's i remember the legit wrestlers were neglected and instead big, heavy, muscular wrestlers (or rather actors# were being promoted. said wrestlers lack true wrestling abilities and their in ring performance was limited to clotheslines, slams, kicks and other non-impressive moves. The biggest example is of Hogan, Warrior and several others of their era. Infact i read in Bret Hart's biography that Bob Backlund refused to lose title against Hogan just because of his non-legitimacy. Iron Sheikh won the title and Hogan defeated Sheikh in that case to become champion.
number of wrestlers are their who were true wrestlers and also got huge popularity that people even remember them today but wrestling federations didnt give them their right spot #with the exception of Kurt Angle and Undertaker). Brock Lesner, Ken Shamrock, Sylvester Turkey, Bobby Leshley etc. are few of them. Even in current crop, from true wrestling point of view John Cena, Edge, Jericho and even HHH...they all suck. I know they are good on mike but i think in "WRESTLING", priority must be given to WRESTLING ABILITY first then to any other attribute.
Same attitude i have noticed when Hogan taken over TNA. Before that there was a great difference between WWE and TNA in-ring wrestling style. TNA wrestling was full of moves, hard hitting, submission holds but since Hogan's arrival...all the wrestlers who had such abilities were being pushed aside. Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Danials and Desmond Wolf are some names and specially about wolf, he is such an amazing wrestlers that i would count his "3 Degrees of Pain Match with Kurt Angle" as one of the great matches of decade. All the "X-Division" level wrestlers vanished and in-ring wrestling has now become dull, slow, traditional and much more like WWE style. Wrestlers like AJ Styles, Jeff Hardy seems to forgot that whats their true style of wrestling was which gave them popularity. I can not compare AJ Styles current matches with his last year 3-way match with Samoa Joe and Danials, its totally change.

Sorry if the question is lengthy, but i want to know the expert's opinion on such wrestling controversy.

ANSWER: Really man, it's all in the eyes of the beholder if you will. TNA has had some excellent matches. Many far before Hogan's arrival. And keep in mind the WWE has had some classics too. The thing we must know is that the WWE doesn't let their wrestlers go as hard anymore as they used to. So, TNA guys can do far more moves and high spots that WWE talent could but cannot do because of not being allowed.

A guy like Jeff Hardy looks like a pretty darn good wrestler in TNA, but in the WWE he is limited. Held back if you will. The times the WWE has let talent go out and do whatever, they have had spectacular matches.

I give you pretty much all of Triple H's stuff in 2000. Starting from the Royal Rumble, this man had classics that cannot be touched by many others. It solidified his main event status really. Trips can really wrestle if given the opportunity.

Basically what I'm saying is that it depends on what company you're in. TNA will let their guys do a ton of high spots all to entertain, and I personally love that. It's why I watch the product. But, the WWE is more so entertainment, through storylines and what not. Then wrestling comes second.

Used to be where both mattered to them, but I digress. However, TNA can afford to let their guys go out there. #1 because they only have one actual wrestling show, Reaction isn't like SmackDown here.

They have a 70 man roster, so, if someone gets hurt, they can he replaced. Also, they don't have to wrestle nearly that often, even the main event guys. They do a few house shows a month, but thats it other than TV shows. WWE guys work anywhere from 150 to 200 something dates a year barring injury.

The WWE is trying to protect it's talent from getting hurt so they can have them longer. So, it's understandable.

The WWE probably should let talent go when it comes to PPVs I think. The WWE allowed HBK and The Undertaker to just go out there at WM 25 and 26. And that made for some classics. So, it shows that the WWE has some of the best talent out there.

But comparing that to Wolfe/Angle, as you mentioned, which was one heck of a match and one of my favs over that past 5 years, the WWE's Mania 25 match with Micheals and Taker was better.

The reason simply being that they were better at that time, but Wolfe/Angle beat the Mania 26 Taker/Micheals.

To me, nothing really has touched Taker/Michaels Mania 25 in some time.

The ROH HDNet special for the ROH World Title with Austin Aries, Bryan Danielson, Tyler Black, and Jerry Lynn had to be one of the best Indy matches I've ever witnessed. This was last year as a matter of fact. Now, two of those men are in the WWE in Black and Danielson. Lynn made a TNA appearance or two.

Also, Austin Aries is going to go to the WWE soon enough I believe.

In any case, it all hinges on the company. I guarantee the WWE guys could hang with the TNA guys wrestling wise. It's just that TNA allows so much more to go on that the WWE doesn't.

Also, the WWE is now seemingly pushing the normal guys. Looking at Jeff Hardy, Chris Jericho, and CM Punk last year, who are all normal sized men, they all had World Title reigns. Jericho even had one this year.

The Miz won the US Title and Money in the Bank and will cash it in soon enough. He is a normal sized star.

The problem has always been that the WWE looks to for two types of people, those with great mic work who can work a storyline well, and then the big guy.

Jericho, Punk, and Miz all work the mic well. So, that is why they are pushed.

Look at Orton aswell, he is cut but not massive. And he is a main eventer everytime you watch RAW it seems, he is just a little tall really. Kofi Kingston gets pushed a lot, aswell as Rey Mysterio who just held a World Title I believe.

TNA doesn't have but a few massive guys on their roster. Most are just normal types. So, when the get pushed, we think, oh TNA doesn't discriminate like WWE does on size. But, they do have big guys in the limelight a lot.

The WWE just has big guys all over it, and many can work storylines well. Undertaker, Kane, and Big Show all have nice mic work. Which is really a main reason why they are pushed. And because they are also big, that helps a lot too. Remember, Taker went through a period at one point where he didn't hold any gold for like 5 years. Kane just now won a World Title for the first time in over a decade. The ECW Title doesn't count as a World Title btw.

Big Show has yet to hold a World Title this decade either. Well, he actually held one in 2000 I think. That was it.

So, the 7 footer may be in the hunt here. But, not always will he win the World Title.

A guy like John Cena is big, but also has great mic work. And can actually wrestle well. But is told to hold back to a limited move set because of the WWE style. Look up Indy or developmental footage of the man, you'll see he can wrestle well.

Also, to correct you, Edge and Jericho are great in ring technicians. But once again are held back for WWE Style reasons. Which is why their mic work is always so good. They both feel if they have to hold back one area, they must increase another








---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks Joe,

Miz, Jericho, Punk are all normal sized, but my question is still there that despite their good mic ability, do they have good technical wrestling abilities as well?
I, once again refer to Desmond Wolf, is any one of them mentioned above have so many submission holds what wolf has. I remember that in the start of Jericho's career in WCW, i use to predict that this guy would be future Shawn Micheals. He then got huge fame but i put a question mark on his in-ring wrestling ability. Do you remember his Submission match with Chris Benoit....Benoit was continuously dominating with his holds and Jericho had only traditional Boston Crap.
Also, Kofi Kingston is good in his speed but in new crop can you name any one wrestler of WWE who has number of submission holds like Samoa Joe, Kurt Angle, Desmond wolf or even Brock Lesner. Miz was VJ few years back and he is one of the guys who irritates me alot. I mean why he is so highlighted when he had proven nothing....i repeat NOTHING in wrestling. Name ANY of his match which showed his great wrestling abilities....infact he has no match so far i remember exceeding 15-20 minutes. And this person is in World title run....and legit wrestler like Viladimir Kozlove is teaming with Santino. Yes viladmir has language problem but so has the Sheamus. Sheamus is strong, so he is champion but Miz is neither legit nor strong and continously in lime light.
So, neglecting real wrestlers and promoting ENTERTAINERS would definitely result in loosing of interest which is now appearing. TNA is new, but WWE is not on the level where it was before 2005.

thanks

Answer
I have to agree that Miz is not the best in ring technician in the WWE, far from that. It's just that he is so over because of his mic work that you had to highlight him for that.

Jericho and CM Punk are both great in the ring. Jericho was not as good of a wrestler as Benoit, and he really wasn't as good during that time as he is now. The Walls of Jericho is kinda like an extended Boston Crab, but Jericho has been known to go to the crossface and a few other holds. Still though, Benoit was a submission based wrestler while Jericho was not, which is why he looked better in the match.

Now Wolfe is a bit different than many others. He has a classic European submission style move set, which lacks in many organizations. Personally, I LOVE Desmond Wolfe and feel he is being very misused by TNA. And when I say misused, I mean, seriously, is he even being used? When was the last time he was on TV?

Anyway, I agree the WWE needs to step up. But, as does TNA. TNA can't touch the WWE's entertainment level, and the WWE isn't where all the best wrestling happens. Basically, you're seeing two different products. Which is good in some ways. But, the WWE has the power here. If they let their guys go, they could really kill TNA in every way. However, if TNA stepped up, there is a chance it could scare the WWE a bit.

But, they still can't get out of the low 1.0s in ratings on a Thursday night!

The WWE gets a 3.0 or higher on a Monday Night, the most popular night of TV in America. Showing that TNA needs to do something to move up in this world.