kayak fishing rods

Question
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Followup To
Question - Thanks Matt, I appreciate your input. I was a little surprised that you would favor a sit on top but I can see why. I guess the only way to know for sure is for me to try one out. The ocean is a new ballpark and I would only go out a few hundred yards to start and see how it feels. I have checked that website and some of those guys go out miles on the sit on tops but thats a bit much for me. I'm not sure how the SOT kayaks are on your back. That is my concern. Doesn't look like too much support. I was wondering if you have flipped over in really open water and chop and how hard it is to right a sit in kayak and bilge pump it out. I was also wondering about what you said about boating the fish. If I hook stripers in the 20 pound range I won't be able to get them unhooked? I didn't realize it was that hard to land large fish. What do you think?
Hi Matt,
I have been fishing for largemouth, often from a kayak, and also surfcasting stripers on the coast, both mainly at night. I want to at least try my kayak down on the coast and see what its like to hook some stripers or blues in it. I have a pretty good idea on how to rig my rodholders but the rods pose a problem. Obviously, the long butts on my surfrods and their weight mean they aren't going into the kayak ( and length too ) but then trying to find a surf rod with a short butt and theres nothing on the market. I build my own rods but I have no time this year to whip up anything. I often use muskie rods for nightfishing largemouth as I use some surface plugs up to 3ozs. ( Don't laugh, I still catch some pretty small bass on them ). Do you thing I should spool them up with braid and use them in the kayak or is there something better suited to stipers I don't know about. I am also a little leary about bring expensive muskie rods into the kayak. Maybe a short six foot heavy action ugly stik would be better with braid so I don't have to work about them too much but they still are kind of short. I don't think they make a seven foot heavy action. What should I be looking at?Also Matt, the great debate. Which do you think is better a sit in kayak or sit on top. I haven't been on a sit on top so I probably shouldn't say anything but they look kind of tippy since you sit so high up and I do like to stay dry when possible. I wonder if they are overrated or should I consider one if I end up upgrading?
Thanks for your input

mark
Answer -
As far as the rod selection goes, I like to keep it cheap. A more expensive rod will be easier on the user all the way up until the user becomes the breaker. That is when a nice rod is much harder on the user than a cheap rod. I prefer to buy a cheap Wal-Mart rod and put a nice Abu-Garcia reel on it. This way if you lose the rig in the drink, you really are only concerned with one of its components.

Surf rods? You have to realize that you are talking to a Midwesterner but I thought surf rods were for getting you WAY out there. With a kayak you will already be WAY out there. I use <$10 rods for trolling rods and a fairly light weight muskie rod (Zebco Rhino) for heavy bait casting. Spinning gear is for everything else (I do buy fairly nice roods for my light spinning rigs since I use them so much).

As far as the sit-on-top vs. sit-in debate, I really don't think there is one. Sit-on-tops are commonly recognized as the best way to go in almost all fishing situations. They are typically more stable, perceived as safer, and now being designed with a fisherman in mind. These guys (link below) are probably the world's best and most skilled kayak fishermen and they use nearly exclusively sit-on-tops. http://www.yakfishing.com/board/
They commonly post pictures of each other holding, out of the water, 100lb+ sharks. I could never do that in my sit-in and nothing over 15lbs comes out of the water until I get to shore.

The reasons I fish from a sit in are mainly geographic. First, speed is a necessity here in the Midwest. Long distances, and sudden thunderstorms tend to make a fast boat a little safer here. Also, wind and current (canals & rivers) kind of force you to have a boat capable of handling well and being fast enough not to take you all day to get up wind/current. And, the short wave length waves kicked up by the high winds here and especially on our reservoirs tend to swamp the deck of any low boat fairly quickly. So a covered deck is nice and slightly drier (I'm guessing drier as I have never been in a sit-on-top in high winds)

But the main reason for me having a sit-in is that it is what I started out with back in '97. My Perception 揅hinook?worked out so well that I tried to stick with the same design and eventually tried out a Dagger 揗agellan?that I liked. This is what I am currently using for fishing.

But regardless, try before you buy is the name of the game in kayaks.

Any other questions? Just give me a shout.


Answer
I can't really say that I favor a sit-on-top over a sit-in. In fact, If you had talked to me 3 or more years ago, I would say sit-on-tops were just toys for the kids and not to be taken seriously for anything but a trip out on a small pond. But if you go to yakfishing.com, you will see that there are a now some well designed, capable, and proven sit-on-top boats ready for some serious fishing. My needs, however, are best served by a long, fast, rough water handling boat and I find that in a sit-in. Not to say that there is not a sit-on-top out there that would work for me. But unfortunately I really don't have the budget for new boat shopping right now. In the future I would like to pick one up out of curiosity, and since they are more beginner friendly for any one who would want to go out with me.

As far as righting a boat in choppy conditions, I can't say that I have had too. I used to try to get out once a year and practice self rescues in warm water. The last two years I practiced my self rescues with ice still on the local lakes, but warm in my dry-suit. I believe that it is essential to any kayaker to at least know how to, and have some experience in self rescues. However, I have never had the opportunity to try a self rescue in choppy conditions here in the Midwest since those choppy conditions are always accompanied by 35mph+ winds. This is where I believe that a sit-on-top would excel. In a sit-on-top you almost do not need a paddle float if you can use the 揷raw up the bow?method. There is also no bailing out the cockpit as I believe all sit-on-tops are self bailing.

For the unhooking of fish, you can do that in the water and this is the least stressfull on fish if you intend to practice catch and release. To keep a fish and not bring it out of the water, make sure you put it on a stringer before you unhook it. Here is what I wrote to a guy asking about landing big fish in a kayak (sit-in).

揃ig (over 15lbs) and aggressive fish (pike, tigermuskie, muskie, wiper, grass carp) do not come out of the water. I either release them after getting a picture of them in the water or use my homemade stringers to strap them to the boat and drag them to shore for cleaning.

My stringers consist of #10 THHN stranded copper electrical wire with a loop at one end and a point at the other end. I make the loop by doubling the wire over and wrapping it with stainless steel wire to tie it off. I then cover the stainless steel wire with Hot Glue to cover all the sharp and snaggy edges of the stainless wire. The point is much more simple as I just cut back the insulation about 3/4" from the other end and solder the strands together. I then file the soldered copper to a point and round off this point so it won't snag when going through its gills but I still leave it sharp enough to penetrate the thin skin at the lower jaw.

The real trick to it is to have a piece of this same wire that will wrap around the bottom of the kayak ahead of the cockpit. This loop is what keeps a large fish from capsizing me if they make a run off to the right or left. The stringer that the fish is attached to is attached to this loop and slides freely back and fourth under the boat. This eliminates the hazard of directly attaching a fish stringer to the deck.

I know my explanation may be hard to follow but I can send you pictures if you would like. Also, though this system has worked flawlessly with me and I have never capsized while engaged in fishing (the one time at the boat dock does not count), I will say that you do know that you have a 20lb Striper under your boat and I don't think I would ever continue to fish using my system with a large fish attached.

Another advantage to my system is that I get scrap wire from work for nothing.

Matt?