Base awards

Question
QUESTION: This weekend's ASA 14U A State tournament. Situation: runner at first base, one out. Batter hits a fly ball to center which is caught by D8. R1 advanced halfway to second but had to retreat to first on the catch. D8 attempted a live ball appeal to first but threw the ball into the first base dugout door. Umpire rules dead ball and awards R1 second base. I thought the rule was two bases from the base last legally occupied by R1 at the moment the throw left the fielder's hand. Since R1 last occupied first base, shouldn't she have been given third? Can you provide the ASA rule number on this? As always, thanks.

ANSWER: Hi Jim,

It is 2 bases from the last base touched at the time of the throw.  When a runner is retreating to a base it is 2 bases from that base.  In this case R1 is awarded 3rd.  8-5-g

I always like to throw this in because people write me and tell me I'm wrong...

r1 on 1st...long fly ball, r1 is running, ball is caught and thrown when r1 is between 2nd and 3rd, r1 now retreats and is between 2nd and 1st when the ball goes out of play on the throw...the award is home, see poe (now rs) 38.  Of course r1 must retouch 1st.

mark

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks for reaffirming rule 8-5-g which I cited to the field umpire. But it gets even better. With time still out he actually came into the dugout while I showed him that rule in the book. He read it and said it was wrong! His rational was that the last base touched had no bearing on the award, that it was the direction the runner was heading which was important. So I went to the homeplate umpire(2 man crew) and said I wanted to file an official protest and to have it noted in the home book. He refused to allow the protest saying I can't file a protest on a judgement call. I told him this was not a judgment but a rule interpretation. He still refused and when I asked to talk to the UIC, the field ump announced he was the UIC! You can imagine my thoughts at that moment.  Question: can an umpire refuse to allow a protest in this situation and how do you handle two umpires (and a UIC) who have a rule wrong in the middle of a game even when presented with the evidence?

Answer
Hi Jim,

ASA UICs are usually very experienced senior umpires.  I'm really surprised this happened.

"He read it and said it was wrong!" That's really surprising, if the "book" is wrong, what's correct?

"His rational was that the last base touched had no bearing on the award, that it was the direction the runner was heading which was important"

that's just wrong as you know.  RS (POE) 38 says "direction of the runners has no bearing on the award"  you can't get more specific than that.  It also says "two bases are awarded from the last base touched at the time the ball left the hand." with 1 exception and this ain't it!

"I told him this was not a judgment but a rule interpretation. "  you are correct

"You can imagine my thoughts at that moment."  You can imagine mine right now.

" Question: can an umpire refuse to allow a protest in this situation and how do you handle two umpires (and a UIC) who have a rule wrong in the middle of a game even when presented with the evidence?"

An umpire, including a uic can do whatever they want during a game but it doesn't end there.  They should have allowed the protest.
A district UIC has a boss and that is the district commissioner, start there with your complaint.  A state uic is also the district uic's boss and you can move to there if the dc doesn't satisfy you.  There is also a state commissioner who is the dc's boss.  And lastly there are regional uics.  I can't tell you who the dc is but if needed I can tell you who the rest of the people are in your area.

This is imo a minor rules mistake made by the field umpire (that should not have been made) made much more significant by the attitude and actions of the UIC who should know the rules better and seek to solve the problem, by the book.

If you pursue this, let me know how it turns out.

Mark