Possession and Control?

Question
QUESTION: What is the definition of having possession and control of the ball? In a game yesterday, I observed the following:

- ground ball to shortstop
- shortstop fields ball and throws to first
- first baseman drops the ball, fumbles around with ball on the dirt
- first baseman places her hand on top of the ball, with her fingers around the ball, with the ball remaining on the dirt
- batter/runner crosses first base
- first baseman picks up the ball in her bare hand

The field umpire called the batter/runner out, saying the first baseman had the ball in her possession, that just because it was in contact with the dirt (the first baseman did not pick the ball up off the dirt until the batter/runner was well past first base) did not mean the first baseman did not have control and possession of the ball.

In ASA J.O. softball, is there an "official" definition of a defensive player having possession and control of the ball? Can the ball be in contact with any portion of the field (dirt, fence) while in the act of fielding the ball and be considered in possession and control of the fielder?

ANSWER: Hi Steve,

I do not have possession here.  

Part of possession and control is holding the ball securely in either in the hand or the glove.  This ball is "trapped" and not under the full control of the defensive player.

Mark

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Mark, Thank you very much.  A quick follow-up:

Here's the explanation of the call I got from a local ASA umpire - does it make sense to you?

"Under ASA, NCAA and (to my understanding, as I do NOT study other rule-sets) others, what you described is control and possession, IF the fielder can and does demonstrate control if, when she raises the ball, she still maintains control, without making any additional adjustment. The call, in this case, should be delayed, until the ball is actually picked up, and control demonstrated; the demonstration can happen after the runner touches, so long as the umpire judges 1) the control happened before the runner touched, 2) there is no change by the fielder before 3) the control is demonstrated by picking up the ball without any issue. In this case, the control is retoactive to the moment of control, not to the moment of demonstration.

In a way, not dissimilar to a tag play; when the runner is tagged, the umpire should then look to make sure the fielder maintained possession during and after the tag. While the umpire must wait to see control after the tag, that proof is also considered proof of control during the tag."

I thought, by reading Rule 1 - Definitions (CATCH/NO CATCH), that possession was what you said...

Answer
Hi Steve,

You will have good umpires that view this differently, we do talk about this play.  While "trapped" usually means the glove over the ball that touches or is on the ground, my opinion is this is also a trapped type of ball.  My argument is what's difference between a hand in a glove over the ball and a hand over the ball. IMO she must raise the ball to demonstrate control before the b-r makes the base.  Have I had other good umpires make a different call..yes..we just disagree.

Mark

Hi all,

I received an answer from a senior ASA staff member

1)  GB to F6 who throws to F3 who bobbles the ball and it drops to the ground.  F3 while keeping contact with the base  puts her hand on top the ball which is laying on the ground.  B-R touches 1st and now F3 lifts the ball from the ground cleanly.  what have we got?

The defensive ball player must show possession. For that to happen, the ball must be clearly in possession such as the entire glove is surrounding the ball and not in contact with the ground. In your example, it looks like the 1st baseman has her hand on top of the ball but is not in possession. Therefore, it is not an out until the 1st baseman picks the ball off the ground. Similar to a caught ball situation. If the ball is bobbled and pinned against the body, we do not have a catch until the defensive player grasps the ball to show possession.

Ok the way I read this when then b-r touched 1st F3 did not have control of the ball, so we have a safe call.  Possession after the fact does not alter the fact when then b-r touched 1st F3 was not in control of the ball, very similar to a bobbled ball..  When he says "Therefore, it is not an out until the 1st baseman picks the ball off the ground."  that must happen before the b-r touches 1st.


"it looks like the 1st baseman has her hand on top of the ball but is not in possession. "  No possession no out.

thoughts?  I believe my original answer is correct

M