back to a question and answer from aug 11, 2009

Question
tom,
    greetings.  the question you answered was involving timing , when the shortstop on a grounder threw out the runner going to third base, while the runner from third tried to score a run at the plate. the out at third was the last to end the inning. now not told to you was the fact that the single umpire came out to view and call third base and declared the run at the plate not scored. this resulted in 5 more minutes wasted by the team who did not get the run.  now the asa rule book has no mention about plays like this.  i was moved from the catcher area into fair play since the shortstop did not come home on the throw, so my vision was not able to see the timing at home and the out at third.  can asa national put such rules in their book for such matters?  i was later told i knew the rule and really did not know all the technicals on this one.  your thoughts for a future occurance and how to handle .  thanks  wrj

Answer
Walter,

The only time the third out prevents any runners form scoring is when the out is a force out.  The rest of the time it is a timing play.  In other words, did the run score prior to the third out being made.

Normally with a two umpire system the base umpire has responsibility for the first play in the infield regardless of where it occurs.  The home plate umpire would watch the timing.

This is one of the deficiencies of a one umpire game.  You simply can not be everywhere at once.  Call the out at third then check to see where the runner is.  Make your call based on that.  If it is so close you can't tell you have a judgement call.  

This is how I would look at it in this case.  If the defense causes the problem by going for the tag at third instead of the force at first, that would absolutely negate the run, then if it is to close to tell I would score the run as it is the defenses fault for putting the decision in the hands of the umpire instead of just finishig the inning with the force at first.

This situation is already covered in the ASA rule book when it talks about when runs can score.

Of course if the out at third was a force out, then this is not a timing play and the run can't score.

Tom