First down statistics

Question
Thanks for your response.  Just a follow up question.  Is this the same in the NCAA.  We received a response, via phone today that the NCAA counts that scenario as a first down.  However, I ran some play by play comparisons (box scores) against the published stat lines for 5 games this weekend and they appeared not to be included in the stat totals just as you have said.  (Being a former football player, coach, and referee, i recall there used to be a difference in placing the ball and spotting the ball, spotting coming before another play, and placing the ball after a touchdown for PAT, or change of possession)
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The text above is a follow-up to ...

-----Question-----
There is a question in the state of kentucky regarding high school football.  If an offense has the ball 1-4 (down) and any yards to go, and they score on any length of play (providing they could have gotten a first down without scoring)  on the that play, they are awarded a touchdown of course.  the question is:  are they also awarded a first down statistically because they acheived enough yards to earn it.  In other words, 2nd quarter, my team has 7 first downs already in the game and it is 3 and 10 from the 50.  We score a touchdown on this play, do we now have 8 first downs?  ( i think no, because another down does not occur)
-----Answer-----
Roger -

Thanks for writing buddy. Well, your question is a good one.  And in fact, it is one that most people would never think to ask!  Well, I am glad you did Roger.  Here is your response.  I see that you are asking about high school football in Kentucky.  You lucked out here because the question you asked has an answer that is accurate no matter what state you live in or what level you play at.  

Now usually, as you can see by my past answers, I give in-depth responses to everyone I can.  But in your case Roger, there isn't much to say!  Your feeling about this situation was absolutely correct!  No matter what the down or distance is, if a play results in a touchdown, that's what it is, nothing more, nothing less.  First downs are only recorded if the chains are moved, and the ball is placed ready for play, period.  Keep in mind here, it DOESN'T matter if the yards gained are enough for a first down, the ball has to be placed and set for play with the refs calling first down for it to count on the stats.  See the info written below for examples both ways.

Now, to go a tiny bit further for you, here are a few more tid-bits of info.  Let's say there are 30 seconds left in the game, a team gets enough yards for a first down, and there are 10 seconds left when the ball is spotted.  However, they are ahead and never run another play.  That DOES count as a first down, whether they run another play or not.  It goes to the same thing.  IF the chains are moved and the ball is placed with the CHANCE of having a play run as first down, it counts.  On the other hand, lets say there are 3 seconds left and a team has 3 yards to gain for a first down.  They run a play, that gains 10 yards, but time expires as the play is taking place.  They gained enough for the first down, but the ball was never placed after the play (because the game is over), that DOES NOT count as a first down.
The yards, however, do count towards the final statistics - +10 yards to the total offensive stats.

Well, thanks again for the question Roger. AS always, feel free to follow-up with anything else you need! I hope you have more to ask, because believe it or not, that was a very interesting question that shows you have a good mind for the specifics of this game.  Best of luck!

Coach Perl

Answer
Roger -

Yeah, I am not sure who called you and told you that, but in my experience, I have never heard of that.  Like you said, the box scores went along with what my experience said.  Now, like anything, and like I always say, "Nobody knows everything".  I am no exception!  But I have never heard of that, and have never seen that counted as a first down in college, high school, pros, even pee-wees!  So I would still say no, that does not get recorded as a first down.

AS far as the spotting or placing, again, that is just a terminology thing.  Officials, coaches, and players will substitute one for another all the time.  There would never be any confusion if you used either one.  The confusion might be because you have served as a ref / official. The technical difference is that spotting is the process of figuring out where the ball should be placed, and placing is actually putting the ball down on the field.. But in general, it really is the same thing, because the "spot" is where the ball will be "placed", and vice versa!  But I am sure officials use the terms very strictly to make sure they have everything perfect.  That make sense?  Basically, they are 2 terms, with an extremely subtle difference, that mean the same thing. An official figures out a "spot", then "places" the ball in that "spot".  

Roger, if you have anything else, please write!  I am truly enjoying this with you.  You seem to be extremely knowledgeable about football, and I love having "conversations" like this.  Hey, I might need to ask you something someday. Seriously, I mean that! Everyone needs to ask at some point! Also, please let me know if this makes sense, and if you agree or disagree.  It seems like we agree on these points, but let me know either way.  

Get back to me soon... I hope you are still involved with football in some way, shape or form.  You should be.. You are very specific towards it, which is a must to really know it.   

Coach Perl